The Morning Chronicle, Thursday May 11th 1854

•rlnters, Manchester ; Harrow^ato, Yeador*, Heck- o, and Gumberworth, Yorkshire; by Lord D. ruin member* of the Suuday-sohool Sick and M iy at B:>rlsden, county of Lancaster, against auses of the Friendly Societies B ill; by Mr. JL i. , against tale of intoxicating liquors on Sunday, congregation of Primitivo Methodists in Groat , and inhabitants of Chilton F diott, Wiltshire ; slkeith, from miuister aul eiders of Kirk Session, and Keir, Dumfriesshire; ministers and elders of Haddingtonshire; minister of Kirk Session and on of Renpont, Dumfriesshire; Kirk Sessions of and Borthwick, Midlothian; New Grcy-lriars, i ; North and South Leith, Leuohars, and Glass- ifriesshirc ; Lady Yes ter’s church, Edinburgh : St. L o ; Goskney, Duddingstone.and inhabitants cl the parishes :--Siberton and Hawick, Roxburghshire ; Midlothian ; Renicwick, Glenross; city of St. An- icd parishes of Xirknewtnu, E* >tCalderaud Cuuon- ? ; parish and burgh of Dumfries ; by Mr. Hindley, r, aldermen, and burgesses of Ashton, under cor- tal, in favour of decimal coinage ; from Ashton, *2,788 persons, against the Friendly Societies Bill; md burial societies in borough of Ashton, viz., the le Prosperity, the Good Samaritan,Die Industrial, thropic, the Parish Church Sunday School, the St. nday School, the Aneieut Shepherds, the Albion, United Order of Odd Follows, the Ashton Hope, the •tint* Female Arkists, the Wanderers Home, the raid*, the Good Intent, the Female Florists, the avemcnt, the Shepherds, the Original, the Perse- rom Hyde, containing 2,144 signatures, against the one from Taunton, Littleborne ; from the inha- \.shton-under-Lyne ; overlookers and surveyors of r aud Salford ; plumbers, tailors, Ancient Order s, United Free Gardeners, aud boiler-makcra of ; gardener8, Manchester; by Mr. Cheetham, and female members of the Middleton Burial rotestant A sociation, Ancient Order of Foresters, united societies, and various orders iu public assembled, signed by the chairman, all ^bridge; against the Friendly Societies Bill, iieywood, from the sick societies of Borrow- cashire, the independent section of Iriendly and from the Protestant Dissenters of New- in, iu Middlesex, for onening the universities; :>llemache, from Birkenhead, Winsford, county , for closing pubiic-houses on Sundays; and Society of Foresters, in the district of South id Nantwie'n, against the third and fourth causes ndly Societies Bdl ; by Mr. Starkie, from the va- ifc societies of Clitheroe, signed by 1,400, against lly Societies B ill; also from the ratepayers of gainst the Friendly Societies Bill, signed by 210 t*y Mr. Townley Parker, against the section of akers clause ia the Friendly Societies Bill, from embers o? the burial clubs of Preston ; Mure, from the Kirk Session of Gervan, Ayr- nst the Education (Scotland) Bill ; also from the of the parish of Beith, Ayrshire, against the he Valuation (Scotland) Bill, which proposes to ¦ sonal property from the poor-rate assessment; by ill, from the Liverpool Chamber of Commerce, in 10 bill to enable execution to issue in any part of • m under a judgmout obtained in any court In Scotland, or Ireland ; by Mr. Percy, from kmen in the employ of Messrs. Bagnall, *e, for closing public-houses on Sundays; Dunlop, in favour of the Lord Advocate’s Bill for Scotland, from the Free Church Congre- almdlington aud Far He, Argyllshire ; Kilnairlie, Dumfriesshire; and New Abbey, Kirkhead ; and Friendly Societies Bill, from the boiler-makers , Dumbarton ; by Mr. Adderley, against sale of 5 drinks on Sunday, from Irishford, Somerset, st, Gainsborough school teacheis, EusongwolU, Shrewsbury ; aud thirty other petitions from •, with several thousand signatures ; by Mr. from the county of Wilts, against iheTestamen- ictiou Bill ; by Lord Goderich, against Friendly Bill, from Hull, Manchester, Staithwaite, in Dinting, and Moseley, Derbyshire. HE FRIEN DLY SOCIETIES BILL.l otion for going into committee upon this bill, UNCOMBE suggested to the honourable gentle- ?mber for North Wilts (Mr. Sotheron), who had his bill, that it would be much better to refer a lie delicate and painful nature embraced by the 3ct committee, especially as he saw that notice ven of a great number of amendments. He gave to the honourable gentleman opposite for the ich he had introduced this bill, but it was at the he fact that there never was a greater oommo- st the working clavses than that which it had 3HT hoped that the honourable gentleman op- 1 accede to this suggestion. The bill in its pre- ould not work at all, and the only result of ould bo to crcate the greatest poasiole dissatis- ngst the operatives of the north of England, who deeply interested in this subject, and were de- losed to this measure. It was one of the most jects that could come under the consideration 3b because it involved, not only the personal in- tho feelings of hundreds of thousands of people, lat it could not be satisfactorily discussed in a of tbe whole house, he would move that it derred to a select committee, IE said that he had heard such statements with e manner in which some of these societies had d, and in which their funds had been dissipated, ught it would be desirable to refer to the select not only the consideration of the present bill, but fttion of the wholo aubjoct. TON EGERTON said that lie had never during years seen moro excitement ia the mauufsc- r e r n m d D t n lrc a tfy ln~ tm o f n u ltic lc u t f ijfo r m n tio n to enable them to legislate with effect. There were many prin­ ciples in the clauses of the present bill which had excited the greatest jealousy, and which must probably be altered in committoe, but this was a matter wholiy distinct from tho question of consolidation. Mr. H IN D LE Y protested against the inference which had beeu drawn iu some quarters from the return presented re­ lative to mortality amongst children as a libel upon the cha­ racter of the working classes of this country. The return itself was manifestly imperfect, but it by no means war­ ranted the suspicions spread on this subject, or the accusa­ tion which had been founded on it, and he should regard any legislative act conceived iu this spirit as an insult to the working classes. Viscount PALMERSTON was prepared to assent to the proposal which had been wade by the honourable member for Lewes, to refer this bill to a select committee, with the view undoubtedly of securing a fair and satisfactory investi­ gation of the subject. There were several questions arising out of it, which might with advantage be submitted to tho examination of a committee, some of which had been touched upon by the right honourable gentleman opposite (Mr. Hen­ ley), or l»y his honourable friends near him. The tirst of these undoubtedly was, whether it would be expedient or useful to consolidate all the laws relating to this subject. This was a proposal attended certainly with considerable difficulties, as suggested by tho right honourable .'{eulieman, but it was a fit subject for consideration, one, perhaps, more belonging to the Government than to a comuiittce, but on which a comuiittce might be useful, as showing all tho inconve­ niences, whatever they might be, which arose from the multi­ tude of statutes, and the uncertainty of their application to any one particular case. With respect to the general regulations of those friendly societies, of course the report of the committtcc which sat some years rgo would be re­ ferred to any committee that might be appointed, and it would have the benefit of tho inquiries of the former com­ mittee, w hich would, to a certain degree, supersede further inquiries, or direct them into tko proper course iu which such inquiries ought to be conducted. The point, however, which had laid the foundation of the various proposals now bofore the house, was tbe question of the regulations appli­ cable to burial olubs [hear, hear]. That was a very painful subject, and one on which he had much rather avoid stating his opinions. He would only say, that the return to w hich his honourable friend adverted did not bear out the conclusion drawn fr*m it, because it simply stated that there were no means of ascertaining, with respect to the deaths of certain children, whether the parties did or did not belong to burial clubs. Upou that question he was asked, iu the early part of this session, by a noble lord oppssite, whether it was the intention of her Majesty’s Government to bring in any measure affecting it. He had then stated it was bis intention to do so ; at the same time, when the honourable gentleman opposite (Mr. Sothe­ ron) brought in his bill, and his honourable friend proposed an amendment to it, that, appeared to him sufficiently to sa­ tisfy the purpose which her Majesty’s Government had ia view , and he dropped the intention of bringing in any sep*- rite bill. He must say, however, that hiB own opinion w r as so strong upon that point that if no ether member w ere to pro­ pose to the house any legislation upon the subject, he should himself feel it his duty to do so [hear, hear]. So far from concurring with his honourable friend in thinking that any legislation ou the subject was an insult to the lower classes, he thought, on the contrary, that the honour of the country, the credit of the lower classes, their dearest personal and pri­ vate feeling-*, were coucerned in placing it beyond the possi­ bility of doubt or imputation that any such suspicions r.s had lately prevailed in this matter could, by any possibility, be founded iu fact [hear, hear, hear]. And, there­ fore, in the interest of the lower classes, and with the view of consulting their honourable feelings, and rescu­ ing them from imputations which bad, not of yesterday only, but for a long time back, prevailed upon that subject, he thought some legislation was absolutely required ; and he should think it his duty, if the committee wero not ap­ pointed, in another session to propose some further enact­ ment on that subject [hear]. Mr. M ILES expressed his satisfaction at what be had heard from the noble lord, and was glad that his attention sbouM be direoted to this subject. Viscount GODERICH thought if the Government were to bring in any other measure there would not be tho slightest U 5e in referring this bill to a select committee. He could bear testimony to the excitement felt on this subject through­ out the country ; and it did appear extremely hard that for the purpose of preventing certain evils which might have pre­ vailed possibly in agricultural districts---|no, from the Op­ position]. He was perfectly sure that evils of the kind al­ luded to did not occur in large societies; and it appeared ex­ tremely hard that, on this account, restrictions should be in­ troduced which would cripple the utility of nine societies out ef ten. Mr. COBDEN said it appeared to him that the observa­ tions of the noble lord the Secretary for the Home Depart­ ment were defective in one important respect. The noble lord stated his resolution, his unalterable determination, to legislate on this matter, and intimated that he had facts on which this legislation would be founded, but that they were too painful to be communicated to the house. Now, heap- preheaded that what they had to do there w fas to consider what was just towards the community at large, not what was delicate to the house, or to the feelings of the noble lord ; and if he bad facts which would warrant the insertion of the clause they were now discussing, he thought that, in justice to the people of this country, tbe noble lord was bound to state those facts. Viscount PALMERSTON : I beg thehonourablo member’s pardon ; I did not slate anything about facts [hear, hear]. I said that I would rather not state my opinions [hear, hear]. Mr. COBDEN would then, if the noble lord would allow him, infer from vrU & t he a w s*Ld that the noble lord dis- solidated those acts, the operations of the societies ror in­ surance would be materially interfered with, the )>owers as te the extent of insurance differing considerably. The bill secured existing societies in the possession of all rights an I privileges now enjoyed by them, and he was afraid they could not go beyond this. Ho felt sutisQed that there would bo no disposition iu any quarter to shelve the present mea­ sure, as at the close of this year all the acts relating to friendly societies would expire, and therefore it was indispensable that some legislation on the subject should take place. It would be unadvisable that the whole extent of the subject should be investigated by the committee, as ono wider in its dimensions could not be eonceivcd, and a full inquiry, he did sot hesitate to say, would find a committee in occupation from that time up to next Ohristius* ; but the object in view would be fully attained by seudiug the bill before a com­ mittee for examination. The existing law, he was glad to think, had answered admirably, as under it more than 5,000 societies had been registered, and it had not been thought desirable to introduce many new provisions into the present measure, though some had been rendered neeessRry by change of circumstances, by new difficulties that had arisen, or by new descriptions of investment which had sprung up with the expanding industry and enterprise of the country. Upon some points now introduced for the first time, and particularly the veiy gravo one to which allusion had been made that day, he was highly desirous that the committee should have full means of inquiring, and if no other member proposed it, he would himself move that they should have full powers of sending for persons and papera. The object of the measure might bo stated gene­ rally to be the same as that of the former act, the facilitating p .s much as possible the formation of provident associations of this excellent kind, without imposing any other restric­ tions than might bo necessary for their maintenance and security. He believed It impossible to overrate the magni­ tude of the interests involved in this question, or the extent of the benefits which wero conferred on the community by such associations when judiciousty conducted. To estimate this he need only point out that whilst, according to tho last census, the total number of the male inhabitants of the country was 9,000,000, the n u m b e r of registered friendly societies known to exist was above 2 0,0 0 0, and that of the unregistered might be taken at 10,0 0 0, each of which comprised from 150 to 300 members ; so that, multi­ plying 30,000 by the minimum of 150, the result would be that nearly half the whole innlo population of the kingdom were in some way or other interested in these associations [hear, bear]. In conclusion, he would express his full as­ sent to the appointment of the committee. Sir G. R. PECHKLL expressed his thanks to the honour­ able member, on behalf of his constituents, for the great pains he had taken in mastering this extensive and important subject. Mr. W. BROWN concurred in the meed of praise offered to the honourable geutleman the member for Wiltshire. Having himself been the foreman of the grand jury at Liverpool on the occasion referred to, he would only observe that it was never intended to cast the smallest reflection on friendly societies, which were generally composed of the most re­ spectable of the working classes, to whoso feelings every con­ sideration was due. Mr. COWAN suggested that great injury was often done by the wasteful misapplication of thft funds of these societies in expensive processions and dinners, and that the provisions of the bill directed against such abuses should be made more stringent. He en­ tirely concurred in the observations made by preceding speakers, as to the benefits which his honourable friend op­ posite (Mr. Sotheron) had been the means of conferring on the working classes of the country, and he trusted the sugges­ tion he ha l made would meet with the attention of the com­ mittee. Mr. I. BUTT said he had been entrusted with several petitions from members of the working class m reference to this bill, who felt a strong objection to the 34th clause, which proposed to give one half of the penalty to a common in- | former arising from any violation of the act [hear, hear]. He thought that would he introducing among the working classes a system of espionage, which would go far to destroy the character of the English. Mr. BONHAM CARTER thought it would net boat all desirable that it should go forth that the house was disposed to treat this subject in a spirit of moddling tegislation. He believed the working classes were well satisfied with the treatment of this question by his honourable friend (Mr. Sotheron); and he thought such a question might be much better dealt with by a private member, to whom there was much greater access, than it could be by a member of the Government, The motion for referring the bill to a select committee was then agreed to. HUSTINGS EXPENSES BILL. Mr. HUM E, in moving the second reading of this bill, reminded the house that in Feb., 1834, after the first general election succeeding the passing of the Reform Bill, a select committee was appointed to inquire into the charges made by returning officers at elections, and that that committee, after having fully investigated the subject, made a report to the house in which they recognised the broad principle that persons returned to that house as the representatives of the people should be returned free from all expense. The ob­ ject of the present bill was simply to carry out that principle, so far as respected the expenses of hu«ti*gs at elections; and he begged to move that it be read a second time, think­ ing, after the experience of the last general election, the time had come when they ought to act upon the principle laid down by the committee of 1834. Mr. PACKE, without passing any opinion upon its merits, suggested that tho second reading of the bill be postponed, in order to its being referred to the committee now sitting on a kindred subject, namely, the expenses of candidates at elections. Mr. PH IN N trusted the honourable member for Montroso would press the ftftopad reading of the bill. The house was It was quite possible that out of three county candidates there might be one very weak of purpose, and yet as strong in argument aud in tbe hold he had on tho constituency as tho other two ; but if the county was a large one the ex­ penses of hustings and polling booths would probably amount to a sum which might prevent him standing as a candidate. Under these circumstances, and as a mode hod been sug- gMteti of meeting the objections taken to the bill in its present shape, he hoped the house would affirm the principle of tho bill by voting for its second readiug. Sir BEN J AMIN n ALL concurred in the suggestions made by tho honourable member for tho Went Riding, but tbo«e suggestions ought to form the subject-matter of tho bill, and not be introduced in the shape of clauses iu commit­ tee. lie therefore thought the bill ought to be withdrawn, with the view to another being introduced which should con­ tain those safeguards which a bond fd c candidate ought to ha*, a in bis favour. He remembered an election in Maryle- bont, when there were 16,000 electors on tho register, and when a gentleman who came forward, and was proposed and seconded, only polled one [hear, hear], a course which sub­ jected him (Sir B. Hall) and his colleague to all the expeuse aud annoyance of tho election, they not thinking it ex- I podlrnt that the candidate who had only polled one »h» I t be called upon to pay his quota. On an­ other occasion of an election, when the constituents h«d rinen to 2 0,0 0 0, just before the nomination a person came forward and threatened to oppose his hon. colleague (Lord D. Stuart) and himself ; and the oniy way in which t'.M opposition was get rid of was by the returning officer in* nisting on each candidate giving, before tho clcction, a cheque or proper security for his portion of the necessary and le^al expenses ; the result being that the party from whom the threat of opposition came decliued to give either cheque or security |a laugh]. Ho tUoueht some security should be given before going to a poll that any lonA fid*, candidate should not be prejudiced hy any fictitious candidate. Lord PALMERSTON confessed that he was not very much disposed to support the bill. As a general principle, he ad­ mitted it was desirable to limit the expenses of the candi­ dates at elections as much as possible. But if it were possi­ ble to relieve candidates from all expenses connected with elections, the honourable momber hud applied himself only to that which constituted the smallest portion of the expenses ; it would go but a very little way towards the establishment of his own principles, and would relieve tho candidate but from tho smallest portion of the expenses, and leave him exnosed to the real magnitude of the costs of elections for largo bo­ rough* and cou*tics. Either the expense from which tbe honourable membor proposed to relieve the candidate was a small one or a very considerable one ; if small, the object ef the bill would obviously not be accomplished ; and it large, it was but fair to consider whether it was right to saddle large expenses of this sort upon the county or borough rates. It had been suggested that in order to prevent vexatious and frivolous contests a can lidate should be required to pay his ]k>rtiou of the expense^ unless he polled a certain pro­ portion of tho votes recorded at the poll. Now there would be a great deal ef difficulty in carrying that measure into practice. Some prooortion must be fixed upon for the pur­ pose, and it might happen that a really bond fide candi­ date, who meant to offur himself for the choice of the elec­ tors, might, by aomc accident, fall short of the proportion fixed upon ; and upon tbe other hand, if the proportion was a sma'l one, it would not accomplish the purpose of exclud­ ing vexatious contests. He thought the hon. member would do well to accede to the suggestion which had been made, and withdraw bis bill for the present, and endeavour to introduce another, combining some of the suggestions which had been thrown out by honourable members. Such a bill would, he hud no doubt, receive due consideration by the house. If tho honourable momber persisted in his motion to divide t ho house, he should feel it his duty to vote against the second reading. Sir G. GREY concurred in the advice given as to the with­ drawal ef tho bill, but was opposed to tho various sugges­ tions which had been proposed for embodiment in anew mea­ sure having the same object iu view. He objected in toto to the principle of tho bill, and to the words contained in its preamble. He thought it was a mast ungracious tiling for the representatives of the people to sit in that house, and to attempt by legislation to transfer from c'neir own shoulder* to the public those charges connected with elections which they had hitherto defrayed themselves [hear, hear]. But even if the principle were a sound one, that the country should bear the expenses of the elections, the proposed bill would not give effect to the principle, for the charges from which it was sought to relieve candidates bore but a very small pro­ portion to the general ex ponses incurred at elections [hear, hear]. He thought it was unnecessary and absurd for the house to record the principle that honourable members ought not to pay the expenses of voting aud polling booths at 1 eleccions. He could not agree to the assumption that the bill, if passed, would tend to encourage contested elec­ tions, nor could he concur with those who thought a j stop should be put to what had been called vexatious t contested elections. He thought that if a man could find a proposer and seconder among a constituency, he had a right to go to the poll, an 1 tue house had no right to say that he should be subjected to a pecuniary penalty because he could not find a certain proportion of the constituency prepared to ! give him their support. Mr. BARROW opposed the bill, on the ground that it would throw upon persons who were not entitled to vote a portion of the expenses of elections, in which they were pre­ vented from taking any part. j Lord ROBERT GROSVENOR expressed his entire con­ currence in the principle of the bill. He believed that every t bribery bill would be useless unless they consented to pass a j bill protecting candidates from hustings and other legalised expenses connected with elections. Lord H. VANE did not consider that tha evil was one of sufficient magnitude to call for the proposed remedy, and he should feel it his duty to vote ftgVmst the secoud reading of the kill. . s n f n w r j r t o pa** rroni m a. point, he thought this measure, as it stood, would have the effect of giving a parliamentary sanction, as it were, to a number of persons who were not, perhaps, qualified in the manner in which persons ought to be qualified, who ought to enjoy the benefit and privilege of a parliamentary sanction in the way of a registration. No doubt, the object ought to be to register those medical practitioners who were duly qualified, by education and attain­ ments, to follow their profession ; but lie did not think this bili would accomplish that object. It would register a number of persons who had obtained their diplo­ mas from a multitude of bodies, many of which w rere not well qualified to givo diplomas that ought to be a proof of the qualifications of the persons who held them. He was quite aware that the condition of the medical profession did require some considerable iaiprovomout [ he^r, bear]. It was a sort of chaos at present, and bewildered any man who gave his attention to it with the view to provide a romedy for the existing evils. Besides, a reference to the great body of the medical profession would not very much advance "any person who had the subject of its improvement in view, for it might happen—as in fact it had happened to himself—that one day he might receive a deputation of practitioners who assured him that the whole profession was perfectly agreed as to the advantages of a particular measure which they placed in his hands, while on the very next day he might find that a very large portion of the medical profession entirely differed from those from whom he hail received that communication. But nevertheless he thought there wera some general leading principles which mi<rbt guide them in dealing with the me­ dical profession. He said it with great deference, but as far as the matter had been brought under bis consideration, he should say that what they wanted w.is some uniform sys­ tem of education, and some uniform test of qualification in the different branches of the profession. At the present moment there were, he believed, twenty-two different bodies entitled to give diplomas, aud, as had been stated in tue course of the debate, some of those bodies lowered their fees and their standard of examination in order to outbid the others, aud the result was, that many persons were practising who were not competent to perform the duties which they had undertaken to discharge. He would be happy if he could be able, on communication with the leading members of the different branches of t^e profession, to pro­ pose to Parliament some measure that at least would lay the foundation of au improvement in the medical profession. He could not pretend to say at present that he was prepared with such a measure, but he thought a part and consequence of that general arrangement would be a system of registration [hear, hear]. He thought a System of registration would be # 1 . _ 4 . f c f • 1 . • • ^ — v w — - m . m . V V I V m m • » a w v u V ( I I I V I ( 1 1/ * V » attention, ond he should be glad if, in connection with those in the refising trade, he could devise a plan to take interme­ diate drawbacks. If that could not be done in the present bill, perhaps power might be takeu, by order in Council, or by ordor of the Treasury, to allow intermediate drawbacks on the varieties of sugar in the market [hear, hearj. He was free to admit that the whole yalue of the measure de­ pended not on the words of the act of Parliament, but 011 the actual standard fixed. He had taken the pains to put himself in connection with practical men, to ascertain what would be a proper standard. He did not mean to say ho was now ready to fix the standard, but he w r as ready, with the assistance of tho refiners and East and West India merchants who might make representations through members of the house, to consider the question, so that they might fix a standard which would be fair to the various ^ parties in­ terested . Mr.^ HANKEY said the honourable member for Lan­ caster’s proposal to make one uniform duty was an extremely unsatisfactory mode of levying the duty to importers of sugar from the West Indies. They felt that the duty ought to be levied on the gross quantity of saccharine matter which tho sugar contained, and on that principle had contended for refining in bond. An approximation towards that prin­ ciple was now offered by her Majesty’s Government; it would be received as a boon by the West India body ; and he begged ou their behalf to thank the Government for it. He hoped they weuld fix a standard which should give the benefit to which he alluded. Mr. SANDARS asked whether the extra malt duty would be levied on all stock on hand, and whether allowance would be made for screening ? Mr. WILSON said the increased duty would be levied on all holders of malt of every description. An erroneous im­ pression had cot abroad that it would be levied on the large consumers snd not on the dealers. Such was not the case. As to the allowance, he believed 3, 4, or 5 per cent, would be allowed for screening. Mr. HEN LEY wished to know if it w *as to be understood that private persons were not dealers? Mr. WILSON should perhaps have said factors. He did not suppose the Excise officers would follow small dealers. He might mention that, as au additional security, there would be a clause in tho bill which would enable the officers to require the factors and dealers to state on oath what stocks of malt they had on the day the resolution waa passed. Mr. DUNLOP was not quite satisfied with regard to the point as to molasses. If it was the case that the resolution carried the other night really did include molasses, no injury would be done by leaving out these retrospective words. The honourable gentleman (Mr. Wilson) said it was to prevent w W m M •» C- --- ------- ^ w of advantage to the profession, aud to the public at largs ; 1 ------ —- — \ —..................... ^ .,-0 but this bill put the cart before the horse, and made tho con- | disputes, but disputes were more iikely to be caused bv put- sequence the preliminary to the cause. Ha was therefore * u retrospective words, contrary to the usage of Pariia- disposed to support the amendment. Mr. N A PIE R said, that the bouse having sanctioned the second reading of this bill, he did not think it was a very fair course to oppose the motion tor going into committee. The noble lord seemed to have somo :^ea in his mind regarding a uniform plan of giving medical certificates or diplomas. How wai that notion to be carried out ? Did the noble lord * * * ; ; „ » mean to convert all the institutions which now granted di- 1 Mr. H A N K EY hopeu that the honourable member would plomas into one great medical university ? He admitted not d'vhle the house. Nobody could possibly have been that diplomas should only be given to properly qualified per- ponged. He would venture to say no bo ly had paid a dif- sons ; but that object could only be effected by means of an fereut duty than they would have paid under this resolution improved system of education ; and wore tho people to be l*-ear* hear]. He had not the smallest doubt the bead of the left in the hands of quacks until such time as Parliament Customs had taken cure to inform every one what would be ment. He should be very unwilling to divide the house, but they ought to adhere to tho ordinary form of these resolu­ tions [hear, hear]. Mr. A LEXA N D ER HASTIE said, as to molasses being sugar it was all nonsense. Molasses were always scheduled separately and distinctly. If his honourable friend divided the house, he should feel constrained to vote with him. should find itself able to establish a better system of educa­ tion ? He hoped the house would proceed to consider the bill in committee. Mr. BRADY briefly replied ; and after a few remarks from Mr. H U M E, *1 y ’» V r. - The house divided, when there voted— For going into committee Against it Majority H U H The bill was consequently lost. THE SUGAR DUTIES. Tue house having resolved into committee of ways and means, Mr. Bouverie in the chair, 69 118 •— 49 the proposed rate1 of duty, and that proposed rate was under* stood by every one to include molasses as part of the ordinary classes which were scheduled in all acts relating to sugar. Instead of facilitating, the alteration of the resolution would embarrass the Custom House, by raising a doubt as to the object and intention of the resolution already passed. He was quite sure nobody in the trade had beeu deceived, and it would only be misleading the public connected with the trade if they implied any doubt as to what ought to be the course taken by the Custom-house officers. If there was any doubt it must be settled by the law officers of the Crown ; it could not be settled by a resolution of the house. Mr. HUM E sbserved that invariably from the passing of the resolution the Customs were warranted in levying the Mr. WILSON said it would le recollccted that on Monday tluties. It would be dangerous to admit the precedent that eveniug several honourable gentlemen opposed the new scale a resolution of the 1 0th would justify their collecting du- of sugar duties proposed by the Governmeut, ou tbe ground ties on the 8th and 9th, and therefore 'he should propose to that it would not be fair to bring it into operation before strike out the words " from and after the 8 th of May.** A the 5th ot July, and that on the following even ng the Chan- I retrospective vote was not consistent with the character of nf t.hp KvehprtiiAr cnlmiittari h lawinv on i ^ _____ ____ cellor of the Exchequer cubmitted a resolution levying an additional duty of 15 per cant, on the sugar duties as they now existed. On that occasion there was one duty which it was impossible to fix in the same way as the others—the duty on sugar for the use of brewers. He now proposed to pass that resolution. It simply made the duty on sugar intended the house, and he would certainly divide upou the question. Mr. WILSON said, in the preseut state of the house, if he opposed the alteration, probably ou a division they would discover there was no house ; he should have the resolution thrown over to another supply day, and, therefore, lose two . - . - - - a— 7 " --- . days’ more duty. The most discreet plan he supposed was to for brewing purposes to correspond to the duties which the substitute tbe 10th for the 8 th. He was quite ready to-trust house had already passed with respect te other sugars. The to the state of the law for the twe days’ duty. n flifir FAortltifm n u h in li hfl iv u lto ii t c n litn !I f wi M 4 TT T O 1T 13 T * __• t. _ j a., i_____• 1 ? t____ ___ _ * » - W — — — w — — -- --- ¦ —--------------- — ¦ - ^ ^ w w w V V . W . « w other resolution which he wished to submit to the committee merely applied to molasses the same relative increase which was pronosed upon the duties 911 sugar. Mr. HUME said the bouse had passed an act declaring that the duties on sugar should remain at a given rate until the 5th of July, and he did not think they had any right to aid 15 per cent, to those duties before that time. He thought they ought to be very cautious not to violate ex­ isting laws in which other parties were concerned. Mr. HANKEY asked the Secretary of the Treasury to ex­ plain raorc clearly than the Chancellor of the Exchequer iiad done, whether they proposed to make any alteration in . T — — ----- ~ g m ^ ~ w j w Mr. CRAUFURD wished to know if they were to under­ stand that molasses were not included in the two days? Mr. HUME understood that if the Customs were right in their interpretation of the law, molasses cleared on those two days would be liable. The words “ on and after the 10th day of May, 1851,” were substituted for 44 from and after the 8th day of May, 1854,” and the resolutions were then agreed to, and ordered to be reported to the house on Friday. The house having resumed. Mr. FRENCH gave notice that on going into Committed of Supply, on Friday, he should put a question to the First Lord 9 f I ^ ^ w 9 M ^ j | bm v U t l v VI1 • m I » Vi V %% \ | V i V o vi V tl v VIS V JL 11 9 % A A y 1 vl the staudard of quality of sugars ia their amended scale of of the Admiralty as to the transport of the 1st Royals by the dutiea ? Mr. WILSON said he mie:ht state in a few words the dis­ tinction which they proposed to make in the new scale of duties. The house was aware that almost the only com­ plaint at the present lime in regard to the operation of the existing law was this, that tho scale of duties did not operate fairly with respect to tho various qualities of sugar. The producers of low sugars complained that, although no- tuiiftally they paid the name amount of duty as the producers of the higher qualities, yet in reality they paid a Andes. The house then adjourned, at balf-past five o’clock. Lord Goderich was prevented by indisposition from voting in favour of tho Chancellor of the Exchequer’s resolution for the iucroasc of the malt tax. Mr. Warner was accidentally shut out from the division on the malt tax, where ho would have voted with the Oofammeut.
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