The Morning Chronicle, May 12th 1854

there was the remotest proapect, mid if there was any possi­ bility, that the mean urea proposed hy the noble earl would have the effoct of hcaliug those religious dissensions and rvatoring the unity which was broken 800 years ago, lie would cheerfully consent to those measures, and doubted whether they would meet with a dissentient voicc in their lord* hips' house ; but he believed they would only have the effect of diverting the attention of the country and of Par­ liament from the consideration of other remedies which might prove much more satisfactory ami effectual. The Earl of CLANCARTY considered it theduty of the Government to come forward and propone means for giving m a te r efficiency to the promotion of religion aud education. The Earl of W 1N CH IL8EA, in reply, contended that it Wai tho first duty of the Government to take car© that the oountry's religious wants were supplied, lie also said that he had not asked the noble earl to give him a system of edu­ cation merely for Church purposes. AH he had asked was a sound religious education—the Biblo without note or comment; and to that, he thought, the great bO'iy of dis­ senters iu this country would not object. In reference to what had fallen from the right reverend prelate, he explained that his conviction was, that though individual sins might go unpunished in this world, national sins never did. We wore the greatest aud tho most powerful nation that ever existed—wo had more moral influence than was ever pos­ sessed by any nation—and as we had such gnat talents placed in our hands, for them wo should undoubtedly be held responsible. However, he would now withdraw his reso­ lution, in compliance with the wishes expressed ; but at the sumo time ho must record his opiuion that if the present state of thiugs were continued and increased in this country, the day would speedily arrive when tho condition of the ma­ nufacturing population—under the restraint of no religious feelings, and with the passious of their fallen nature as their ouly guide— would bring a punishment upon the great and mighty of this land which theu would be seen to be a most just and well-deserved retribution. The motion was accordingly withdrawn. The LORD CHAN CELLO R presented a petition for Edin­ burgh against Lord Brougham’s Bankruptcy (Scotlaud) Bill. Their lordships then adjourned, at five minutes past eight. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Tho Speaker took the chair at four o'clock, NEW M EM BER. Mr. Mostyn took the oaths and his seat for Flintshire. PR IV A T E BUSINESS. The Norfolk Railway Bill and the Ryde Improvement Bill were read a third time. The Belfast Water Bill was read a second time. PETITIONS. Petitions were presented by the Marquis of Stafford, from the Free Church teachers in the Presbytery of Dornock, county of Sutherland, that the Education Bill may pass into law ; from the ministers and elders of the Free Church of the name county, to the same effect; from Daiuep, in ike same county, to the same effect ; and from the parish of Bogart, iu tho same county, to tho same effect; by Mr. Apsiey Pellatt, from inhabitants of Chelsea, for taking off the taxes on knowledge ; also from various gas consumers in Surrey, against the Surrey Gas Bill ; by Air. Cowan, from the Free Church congregation of Towie aud Sendai Cushnie, Aberdeenshire, in favour of the 8cotch Education Bill ; bv Mr. Dunlop, from the Free Churoh congregations of Carstophine, Edinburghshire, and Grovan, Renfrew­ shire. in favour of the Lord Advocate's Education Bill ; by Mr. George Duncan, from the noblemen, freeholders, commissioners of supply, and justices of the poacc for the county of Forfar, in favour of the sixth clause of the Exe­ cution of Writs Bill ; from the same body, in favour of the Scotch Education Bill ; one signed by 1,032 inhabitants of Dundee, in favour of the 29th clause of Valuation Bill, now before the house ; hy Lord Goderich, agaiust ccrtain clauses of the Friendly Societies Bill, from the boilermakers at Huddersfield and H ull, from the Order of Ancient Shep­ herds' of the Aston Unity, Hull, the Good Intent, the Good Design, and the Gift Burial Societios, and from the Flower of the Forest Economical Burial Society, at Hull ; by Mr. JVliall, from the inhabitants of Maideuhead, for opening the uciversities to all classes, without reference to creed ; hy Sir Gilbert Heathcote, from tho town of Rippingale, Lincolnshire, for closing public-houses on Sunday; by Mr. Farnham, from Frisby, county Leicester, for closing public-houses on Sundays ; by Mr. L. Heyworth, from the inhabitants of Glasgow, not to reduce the wine duties: by Mr. Locke King, from Mitcham, Surrey, for closing public- houses on Sundays ; by M r. H . G. Langton, from the con­ gregation of Independents at Anvil-street Chapel, and the minister and members of Countership Baptist Chapel, city of Bristol, against the sale of intoxicating liquors on Sundays ; by Sir William Verner, from the Evangelical A l­ liance, and inhabitants of Armagh, in favour of the appoint­ ment of the committee to inquire into conventual establish­ ments ; by Sir Jas. Anderson, frona the United Presbyterian PresHytery of Falkirk, for alteration in the Education Bill ; by Mr. Cobden, from Ashford, Kent, for ocean penny postage ; by Sir Joshua Walmsley, from certain magistrates, clergy, directing ministers and other inhabitants of the borough of Leicester; from the Wesleyan congregations at Chesterfield and Brampton, from the Primitive Methodists of Brampton and Chesterfield, from tho Protestant dissenters at Cropston, in Derbyshire, all to prohibit the sale of in­ toxicating liquors on Sunday ; by Sir Michael Hicks Beach, from Dowdeswell and Rodmartou, county Gloucester, in favour of closing public houses on Sunday, except lo lodgers or bona fide travellers; from Mr. John Prior, of Tewkesbury, iu said county, surgeon, against the Medical Practitioners B ill; by Lord Dalkeith, from tho congregation of the parish of Mid Catder. Ferry Port on Craig, Kirk Sessions of New- battle Colinton, St. Andrews, parish of Morton, parish­ ioners of Cramond, ministers and elders of St. A n­ drews, Edinburgh, against the Education B ill; some ol the parochial schoolmasters of Dumfriesshire, parochial ditto of Presbytery of Dumfries, and 200 Dissenters of Mus- !aid a statement of his case before the committee, out de­ clined to suggest to them the names of the witnesses to be called, because he cousidered that by the votes of the house he had no locus standi to act upon or with the committee. The committee upon this came to the resolution that it was very dosirahle that Mr. Moore should be appointed to serve with them, in order to conduct tho case againBt the parties whose conduct was impugned ; and also that another hon. member, in tho confidence of tho accused, should be placcd on the committee, in order to watch the proceedings on their behalf. The appointment of such a person they proposed to leave to the general committee of elections, in whose selec­ tion there could be no doubt that the house would feel every confidencc. The course which he now recommended was strictly in accordance with the precedent of the Carlow elec­ tion committee in 1847. Mr. FREN CH complained that a slight had been cast upon tV.e honourable member for Mayo (Mr. Moore) by not originally nominating him upon tho committee. Sir G EO RG E G REY denied that the general committee of elections, of w hich he was chairman, intended to cast any slight upon the honourable member for Mayo by not nomi­ nating him as one of the members of the committee. They had done so because they understood that on referring the nomination to them, the house desired them to select five impartial members to compose the committee [hear, hearj. If they were now directed to appoint anether member in addi­ tion to Mr. Moore, merely to examine witnesses, but with­ out the power of voting, they would of course act upon quite a different principle, and would conceive they host dis­ charged their duty by asking the Under-Seoretary for the Colonies to mme that member [hoar, hear]. Mr. F. PEEL said that he had no objection to offer to that part of the motion which related to the appoint­ ment of Mr. Moore. With regard to tho other part of the motion, it was the opinion of the Duke of Newcastle that it was quite unnecessary. He (Mr. Peel) and his grace would he able to state all that took place with respect to the ap­ pointment of Mr. Stonor ; and having perfect confidence in the committee, his grace was quite willing to leave the case in their hands. Mr. W. M ILES said that the statement of the honourable gentleman was highly honourable both to himself and tho Duke of Newcastle; but still he thought that, in order to assist the select committee to arrive at the truth, each side should nominate a member to conduct their case. Mr. IIU M E thought the house should beware lest by ap­ pointing members in tho mode suggested they should throw a donbt on the capacity of the members of the select com­ mittee to conduct an inquiry such as the present. After the statement of the honourable gentleman the Under-Secretary for the Colonies, which was highly honourable both tohimself and the Duke of Newcastle, it would he thought be highly improper to place any nominee members at all upon the committee. Mr. B RIG H T said that it was perfectly impossible that five men who were entirely ignorant of the facts of a case should arrive at the truth without the assistance of some one who was acquainted with the matter, and was in a posi­ tion to bring forward evidence and cross-examine the wit­ nesses. He was glad to hear what had fallen from the Under-Secretary for the Colonies, who had, he thought, taken the proper course ; but still he was of opinion that in order to have a fair inquiry into this matter, it was necessary that the honourable member for Mayo (Mr. Moore), who could bring forward evidence, should be on the committee. Mr. D IS R A E L I said that the house should not consider merely the feelings of the person who brought the accusa­ tion and of the persons who were accused. What would be the result of having only one nominee, the bon. member for Mayo (Mr. Moore)? He, being perfect master of his case, would be sure to manage it effectively ; and as thero was no person to represent the Government, the committee, who were in a judicial position, and who ought to decide on the facts that were laid before them, would be obliged to fight the battle of the Government in answer to the accuser, who was a member of their own body. Such a result was net at all desirable. It was due to the five gentlemen who had to perform so difficult and delicate a task, that they should not be placed in this unsatisfactory position. He did not think that they should sanction a sen­ timental feeling in matters of this kind. Let the accusation that was made m this case be met itfc the usual manner, aud let all means be taken te secure a fair deoision, by giving to L both sides equal advantages, as far as that could be done. It j w ould, ho was sure, be most satisfactory both to the house and the committee if nominee members were appointed on both sidcfl After a few words from Mr. LID D E LL, Mr. B O U V ER IE said that Mr. Stonor himself seemed to have been quite forgotten in the course of this conversation. As his character was involved here, some honourable mem­ ber ought to be appointed to act upon the committee on his behalf. Mr. D EED E 8 said the select committee understood that, by tho terms in which this subject was referred to them, they wore precluded from entering upon any inquiry into the conduct of Mr. Stonor, and therefore there could be no fear that any injustice would be done to him. The honourable member for Manchester (Mr. Bright) had admitted that there should be on the selcct committee a member whose duty it was to conduct the inquiry. But then, in that case, there must also be an honourable member appoiuted by tbo other side. Because it was perfectly impossible for any judicial member of the committee to cross-examine the u v i a i m . ' i i i • v« v-j-| — — — -------- paid in Exchequer-bills ami what amount in money. Ii had likewise been published that the subscription would bcreo •»nd up to two o’clock on Monday, the 8th inst. As the nmolu* tion of the house only ratified what had been subscript* I <n. to that time, it was to be presumed, of course, that n < I mg further had been issued ; but perhaps the right hottoui •>•!•» gentleman would afford them some information ou U >e subject. The CHAN CELLOR of the E X C H E Q U E R thought.» at tbe object of the honourable gentleman was a per­ fectly reasonable one, and that he would beet j .. mote it, not by endeavouring to answer the qur«t<<i« now*, but by presenting a return which would give thu ¦ » » formation in a more exact form than it would now ho l» » ‘ila power to supply. It would state what amount was sub m » #d on Monday, the 8th May, what amount was subaeuut* tlf subscribed, and what amount had been paid. When 1*1 the honour of addressing the house on Monday night. < .« . was not in possession of accurate information on thin point, and he had spoken not quite exactly, having with him a p morandum which had just been put into his handa, atttf which had beeu hastily drawn up. The honourable get.•'*« man would thus see what had taken place with respect t all the points embraced in his question, except as regarded M payment of deposits by a particular hour. He believed 1 he I the usual practice was to take the deposit, not to the U#t hour for receiving tenders, but to tho last hour of ba. . lug business; and likewise that deposits for small sunta w«r* taken on Tuesday morning from parties who had given i • ou. Ho thought the hen.gentleman had not quite correctly *ut«4 tho effect of the vote of Mouday night. He apprehended t «t tho vote of Monday night went to sanction the wh M e amount of the bonds paid ; but that there was a distim .< » > derstanding between the honourable gentleman and hit « f. that he was uot to make any new contract beyond the am actually agreed upon. Mr. B A R IN G : The right honourable gentleman caanet state generally, then, what the result of the measure i«! Tho CHAN CELLOR of the E X C H E Q U E R could »ute that, if it were of interest to the house to be aware of it. Me could uot state precisely the amount paid in Exchequer t • ; but £1,600,000 was the amount tendered for and paid *m to the 8th May, and the remaining £400,000 had been ton e « I for since. But he would take care that no contract of asy kind should be entered into until the sense of Parliament had been ascertained. Mr. M ILES asked the Secretary of State for the II me Department when it was his intention to introduce his hill for encouraging voluntarily established industrial reformatories for criminal children, of whioh he had given notice ? Visoouot PALM ERSTON was not yet able to fix a^Uy, but could assure the honourable gentleman that nothin** »** gained by announcing a bill before the Government had made up their mind as to the arrnngements to be made. Mr. M ALIN S inquired if the Disfranchisement Bill would come on to-morrow (thisday) ? Lord J . RUSSELL said the bill that stood first for to­ morrow might take a veiy considerable time, but if th. Go­ vernment could bring on the other bills, they would do > , THE ANDES ST EAM ER—V OYA GE OF THE ROYALS. Mr. FREN CH wished to know from the right honoutable baronet the First Lord of tho Admiralty whether the atate* ments in the newspapers in relation to the conveyaneo of the 1st Royals by the Andes steamer were'correct ? It was said that this vessel, of about 1,200 tons, was chartered for tho conveyance of 500 troops to tho East; that in plao-’ of 600, the regiment came in 800 strong ; that there wero but 500 berths, and a telegraphic inquiry was sent up to know what was to be done ; that orders were given to make as much accommodation for the troops as possible, hot that they were to embark immediately, and they were acoor.l- iugly sent off from Plymouth without delay ; that owing to a sufficient examination not having been made, and the bulk­ head not being covered with metal, the steamer took flro ; that a very considerable quantity of gunpowder had bean placed in the vessel without the usual precaution of a m *ga- zine being established, aud but for the gallantry of the pri­ vates every soul on board would have been blown to pieoe* ; that tho vessel arrived in a damaged state at Malta, aud wai reported by the dockyard officers to be iu a dangerous condi­ tion, but was nevertheless despatched to the East with the regiment. Sir JA M E S G R A H A M had been enabled to make’inqui­ ries respecting the matters mentioned hy the honourable gentleman, the result of which be would state. No official statement whatever had reached the Admiralty, nor, ho be- j lieved, the Horse Guards, with respect to the matters in question. It was quite true that the Andes was not originally taken up to convey so large a number of men as were actually conveyed by i t ; but he would tell the house oh whose au­ thority the number originally intended to be conveyed was augmented. Sir Harry Smith, the general commanding at Devonport, himself visited the vessel, and w&a of opinion I that it was well qualified to carry a larger number than that originally intended. The commanding officer of the Royals, who had arrived in the shortest possible time, with the entire regiment undivided, concurred in opiuion with Sir Harry Smith, and upon that conclusion it was thought they could safely act. It was also of urgency that some gunpowder should be conveyed in this vessel, and it was therefore taken on board ; but unfortunately, when very near Malta, from the working oftheengine and the motion of the ship in the stormy weather at the time, the vessel caught fire. The danger was considerable, but thegallantry of the officers and men,as might have been expected, was exemplary, aud no real misfortune occurred, the vessel arriving at Malta safely. Here the damage sustained was speedily repaired, through the assist­ ance given by Admiral Stewart, whose exertions to forward the service had been most effective. He could not sufficiently express his gratitudo to Admiral Stewart for the efforts he had mode as w r ell on this as on other occasions, and ho be­ lieved that no conjoint service was ever performed so well. had been so received accordingly. A'* to any sucn couumuns us that mentioned, they were not known to him. J H IG H W A Y S (DISTRICT SU RV EYORS) BILL. Mr. FR EW E N moved the second reading of this bill, the object of which waa to associate the more opulent rate­ payers with the magistrates, In the appointment of district *ni veyors. It waa expected that, by the plan pro­ posed in the present measure, greater efficiency and economy would be secured. It much resembled that adopted in Irish baronies, by which the best roads in the world were maintained at the smallest cos If this measure should become law, he was sure the rates would be redueod 50 per cent, in many districts, and the roads themselves would be improved. lie objected to a ge- neral measure applicable to the whole country, because there were many parts where it was not necessary. He, therefore, moved that the bill be read a second time, with the view to its bein* referred to a select committee. Mr. W. M ILES thought it would become the house imme­ diately to say no to the further progress of this bill, for no measure could possibly be more oligarchical than it was. Inatead of proposing the adoption of either the Welsh or Irish systems, his honourable friend (Mr. F re wen) sought to mix up magistrates and land-tax commissioners in a moat ••xtraoruinaiy heard for tho purposo of carrying hia bill into execution, to whom was to be given the power of deter­ mining what parishes were to be included in a district, who should be the surveyor, and what should be his salary, with­ out the ratepayers being at all consulted. He moved, as an amendment, that the bill be read a second time that day six months. Mr. FIT ZROY quite agreed with his honourable friend who had just addreased the house, in the viewr he took of this bill. The subject of the general amendment of high­ ways was a very Urge one, and several attempts had been made in that house to improve it. Though they were all equally aware of the necessity of some general measure on this subject, he was bound to believe there were few members in that house who would undertake tho task of preparing a measure for consolidating the existing highway acts. He certainly thought the machinery of the present bill would l*o excessively cumbrous ia action, whilst it was perfoctly novel in principle. It had been drawn so loosely that if even the hease adopted its principle he should suggest that it be withdrawn. Certainly, in its present shape it would only be a waste of the time of the house to allow it to go a step further. Sir W. JO L L IF F E {bought if the bill was adopted it would give anything but satisfaction to those persona gene­ rally who were now charged with the highway expenditure throughout the country, amounting to about £ 2,000,000 annually. The most objectionable part of the measure was that in carrying It into operation the ratepayers were in no way whatever represented [hear, hearl. He had de- veted some time and consideration to this subject; and when he was in office he prepared a bill iu refereuce to it, but he thought that bill wa* rather the property of the de­ partment to which he then belonged than his own. He felt that a measure of this kind could not he carried through the house unless with the full concurrence of tho Government of the day [hear, hearj. Sir J . TROLLOPE concurred with his bon. friend (Sir W . Jolliffe) in thinking it was the duty of the Government to endeavour to cope with this very difficult subject. The subject was not only difficult in itself, but new difficulties were accumulating round it every day, which made it the more imperative on the Government to bring iu a bill to deal with the question. Mr. VERN ON SM IT H said, however objectionable this bill might be in many respects, he was pleased to thiuk that any hon. member bad prepared a measure which contemplated the appointment of district surveyors. He thought there were two principles involved in this question—one was the appointment of distrfct surveyors, which ho thought should be made compulsory, and tho other was an effective audit of highway accounts, which was very much wanted. M r. RTCE, although he did not approve of this bill, thought his hon. friend (Mr. Frewen) had done food service in bringing the subject before the house, inasmuch as it had elicited from every preceding speaker au admissiou of the abuses incident to the existing system, and of the necessity for legislation ; and he trusted, between the honourable b 3ronet the member for Peters field (Sir William Jolliffe) and the ^honourable gentleman the Under-Secretary for the Home Department, the country would eventually obtain a good bill for the regulation of highways. Mr. M ASTERS SM ITH said, as one of the members whose names were on the back of this bill, he should be content to see it withdrawn, if the Government would give the house some assurance that they would give the subject their consideration. Sir G EO RG E ST RICKLA N D said he hoped the Govern­ ment would not be so incautious as to give any assurance that they would undertake to deal with this question [a laugh | . They had a sample of sueh an attempt a few years ago, when Mr. Comewall Lewis, with great ability and per­ severance, sought to deal with it but totally failed [hear, hear]. If tlie Government attempted the same thing again, he was sure they would equally fail. The hon. member for East Sussex (Mr. Frewen) need not have told the house that the roads in the county he represented were bad ; they were notoriously bad [a laugh]; but that was no reason why the whole country was to be saddled with an offensive bill like this. So far from being a popular act, he believed it would be most offensive to the country at large. ' 8ir G EO RG E G R E Y said he could bear testimony to the perseverance and seal with whioh his honourable friend (Sir George Strickland) had resisted every attempt to obtain a general highways act. He (Sir George Grey) thought it would be most desirable if they could get a good highways act with a view to secure better roads. He believed great economy would be the result of such au amendment of the law, although every attempt at amendment had failed, from the mistaken apprehension that great additional expense The CHAN CELLO R of the EX C H E Q U E R said he had no objecion to name the 24th of September as tho day before which the register should be prepared and published. Mr. H E N L L Y said the clause threw a very onerous aud difficult duty upon the Vicc-Cluncellor, and he hoped the matter would be reconsidered bv the Government. Tho CHAN CELLO R of the E X C H E Q U E R thought the Vice-Chancellor would have no difficulty in performing this duty, which he would, no doubt, discharge in a mauner perfectly satisfactory. If the bill had retained the clause that non-resident persons should be qualified to be members of congregation in respect of their having held certain offices for a length of time, the task imposed upon the Vice Chancellor would have involved a great deal of trouble ; but as the matter now stood it was plain, presuming congre­ gation to remain as it was, that tho register might be pre­ pared without any difficulty. Mr. J . G. P IIIL L IM O R E said he saw in the bill no re­ medy for any person who might complaiu of being omitted from the list of the Vice-Chancellor. The CU AN CELLOR of tho E X C H E Q U E R replied that the comtnisKiouers would havo power to amend the proceed­ ings of the Vice-Chancellor. He must say that he thought they wero becoming too minute iu their discussions upon the bill. It was perfectly well known in the university who were residents, and ho hardly thought it possible the Vieo-Chan- cellor could omit from his list the name of any person who ought to be included. Mr. H EN LEY said he was one of those who thought it was not advisable to make too minute regulations iu that house ; but they must recollect that they had taken upon themselves to interfere, and it was their duty to put their aot in a shape that would work. According to his interpretation of the bill as it stood he did not think tne commissioners would consi­ der themselves entitled to entertain an appeal by any gentle­ man who might complain of his omission from the list of the Vice-Chancellor. He believed, in fact, that there was no appeal provided for in the bill. Mr. W IG R A M doubted very much whether there was any necessity for giving an appeal, because the register, though a great convenience to tho university, would not be conclu­ sive at all as to the rights of parties. When they came to the 18th clause, it would be uecessary to define the persons entitled to vot* very correctly. Mr. H EN LEY would like to have tho opinion of the Soli­ citor-General upon the question raised by tho last speaker, whether the register would or would not exclude parties from being members of congregation. If the honourable member for the University of Cambridge was correct in his interpretation of the bill, the proposed register would be all but useless. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that, unless some al­ teration was introduced into the 18th clausc, any person who camc within the meaning of that section would b e * entitled to vote as a member of congregation, even though his name might not be included in tne list of the Vice-Chancellor. The clause was then agreed to. On clause 17, empowering the hebdomadal council to re­ gulate its own proceedings, Mr. W ALPOLE asked the Chauoellor of tho Exchequer what he meant by the words “ without prejudice to the rights of convocation iu the making of statutes 7" As tho bill was drawn, convocation did not soem to have auy power to mako statutes ; it could only accept them or reject them. Tho CH A N CELLO R of the E X C H E Q U E R said convo­ cation must be an assenting party to any statutes which might be made for the university. The object of the clause was simply to prevent the hebdomadal council from arro­ gating to itself, under the authority of the act, any power which, by the present constitution of the university, ought to belong to that whioh was really the supreme legislative bed? Mr. N EW DEGATE said the question now raised was the right* of convocation. If he understood the Chancellor of the Exchequer right, this new body—congregation—although it was not to elect the hebdomadal board, was to have every proposal of that board sent through it to convocation. More­ over, it was to have the power of debating, of amending, or, if it chose, of rejecting all such proposals; so that, in reality, nothing emanating from the hebdomadal council could hy any possibility reach convocation without the consent of congrega­ tion. That was a power to whioh he most decidedly objected, because it was completely contrary to the constitution of the university as it had hitherto existed. The bill, in fact, cieated an oligarchy composed ef residents, which wa* to interrupt the legitimate action of convocation in legislating for the university as it had always done. As, therefore, the powers of oonvocation were nullified hy this bill, he thought the proposal of the hon. member for South Lancashire was consistent with sound sense. Mr. H E Y WOOD said the idea of congregation waa perfectly in uuison with the ancient practice of the university. The practice in ancient times, when the roads were impassable and access by non-residents was extremely difficult, was, for the resident masters to legislate for tho university. If, therefore, congregati&n under this bill was to be an effective working bociy, it seemed to him undesirable to enable a large body of country clergymen, with the present facilities of travelling, to como up and paralyse the powers of congregation. He begged to movo that the words “ and convocation’' be omitted at the commencement and close of the clause. The SOLICITOR-G EN ER AL was'quite surethe'hon.mem- ber had not rightly apprehended tho meaning of the els use. The authorities to make statutes in the university consisted of congregation and convocation conjointly ; and the hon. member had made the error in takiug the words 4 4 rights of congregation and convocation'’ us if thoy meant the sepa­ rate or respective rights, whereas they meant the joint rights of convocation and congregation, iu other words, it in­ tended to express that the hebdomadal council shou’d have powor to make regulations for its own proceedings with the concJtreuce of the .statute-making part of the university. had gone a good deal beyond the record wheu ho stated this initiative power formerly belonged to congrcg* and he certainly did not know how the right honoui haronet founded, or proposed to show, that the function the hebdomadal board rested formerly \ %i?hr njrugp [hear, hear]. But he submitted that at the nionn nt were not discussing the functions of congregation. Tb«* onrahla member for South Lancashire had raised a qtien of principle which might be fairly raised under thin th He wanted to cut off the power of convocation,* I was the question before the committee, to which it wonl convenient to direct attention. He confessed, though | .< that convocation was ill constituted to discharge a great i functions important to be discharged, yet he did not aii see the franchise of convocation diminished. The rijt nourable baronet thought this bill did virtually diminish privileges. That was a question which ho should be peri ready to argue at another opportunity. What he wished tosay was, that he could not consent to sever the link 1 united many members of that house, for example, *itl working body of the University of Oxford, and ho was sure the honourable member for South Lancsshirc eon I induce the house to extinguish the rights at present po«i by convocation. Mr. P H IL IP P S , as a non-resident member of the V sity of Oxford, was happy to hear such high eulogium i \ upon that body, though lie thought the less they intot with internal regulations tho better [hear, hear]. He admitted that the opinions of Lard Harrow by and Lord mere, and such men as ho saw around him, would be n tageous upon any question ; but they must remember the train that carried them down would carry down six tii many other men armed in tho triple mail of obstinac norance, and prejudice upon the immediate point consideration, who would quite overwhelm their intit Ho remembered the excitement with regard to Dr. 1 den, and he believed nine out of ten of the non-resideu attended convocation had never read one word of wh Hamuden had written. He remembered similar excit in order to check the Tractarian party. On oncoccasio Williams, fellow of Trinity, was candidate for the pro ship of poetry. The cry of Tractat ianisin was raised r him, aud that proved fatal to his claims, though theo opinions did seem of little iraportauco in the profa poetry, particularly in Oxford, where the standard ol was formed upon Horace, and Homer, and Virgil— j wko haanever been considered to be vory sound Prot< | a laugh]. He did uot wish to see the action of the i sideut members done away with ; but ho thought the ii affairs of the university could bo regulated by tho r members much better than by those who only c*mo t in five or six years, without having anything like cool association with tho university. Mr. N EW DSOAT E contended that oongreeatio?: prevent convocation meeting to discuss any particula tion, and that the hill would thereby place a complete the action of convocation. Ho was radio I enough to tho oPiniona of such a constituency as tho univcrsi’ was the fashion to abuse convocation—to talk of turbulent mob—a set of ignorant, half-starved curat they looked, however, at the composition of oouvt they would find among its members a great part talent of the bar, a great part of the talent and piety Churoh, many members deemed to be worthy of a that house, and a great many who hail seats in th house. That waB tho body which, for the sake of and placing the whole power in the hands of the re they were about to disfranchise. He djjJ not believ served to be disfranchised, and that was the reason objected so strongly to the ameudmeut. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the Governm precated the annihilation of the functions ot convoci strongly as the hon. member for North Warwicksh he begged to invito attention to two considerations, the charter granted to the University of Oxford w c chancellor, masters, and scholars ; and therefore all whose names were on tho books were corporators, only franchise they had was the power of voting as r of convocation* The effect of the amendment wou lesve the masters an integral part of the corporatioi university, and yet say, in a most inconsistent mam they should exercise no power as corporators wil university. The other consideration was, that if the off the power of non-resident masters to attend con they would deprive them of all interest in the un and tho practical consequence would be that the n tho books of the differeut colleges would be much dii in number. That was a cousequence which he should and ho had no doubt, as every consideration of ex] and legality negatived the amendmeut, the committ unanimously come to the conclusion that these won; remain as part of the bill. Sir JO H N PA KINGTON , as a member of the U of Oxford, could not hear the language of the ho member for Haverfordwest without entering his against it. He was sorry to hear the honourable m < led away by his zeal for this bill as to speak of the of convocation as armed in the triple mail of c ignorance, and prejudice. The expre^siou was mos liable. Mr. P H IL IP P S said ho had been very consideral presented. He had distinctly limited the obsei which the ri^ht honourable baronet referred to th question, and guarded himself carefully from ca oensuro on tho general body of convocation [hear, 1 never said he objected absolutely to non residet part in legislation at Oxtord. What he objccte their going down without making themselves a < with tho point at issue. Mr. R . J . P H IL L IM O R E observed that when told the articles were understood in a r.on-natura did not require very attentive consideration befor
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